TW2k13

[Medic]

Hi ya, guys.

I used to be pretty active on the 93GS forums until they died down, and I asked if people would be up to creating rules for air combat for the 2k13 ruleset so they could be used for non-Twilight scenarios. I'm now asking here, because nobody replied to the thread before the forum shut down. And yes, the rules would be purely pro bono, since I do not have a stash of money for buying the rights for the ruleset.

Anyone interested?

[Targan]

It sounds like a great idea. Big job though. Has any thought been given to perhaps adapting all or part of the old T2K air combat rules? Admittedly they are themselves just an adaption of the 1st ed vehicle rules.

[Medic]

Originally Posted by Targan

It sounds like a great idea. Big job though. Has any thought been given to perhaps adapting all or part of the old T2K air combat rules? Admittedly they are themselves just an adaption of the 1st ed vehicle rules.

I was thinking of adapting the 2nd edition rules for the 2013, but they would require some modification, for an example for V/VSTOL aircrafts like Harrier or Osprey as well as adding a huge selection of real world weaponry in to the mix.

And of course this would pave the way for something I've been pondering about ever since I played Deus Ex - were not very far from actual cybernetic enhancements. Rather, there's already some things like iLimb that could be counted as primitive cybernetics, and I've planned on creating a set of rules for them as well.

[Medic]

Originally Posted by Targan

It sounds like a great idea. Big job though. Has any thought been given to perhaps adapting all or part of the old T2K air combat rules? Admittedly they are themselves just an adaption of the 1st ed vehicle rules.

I already replied to this, but apparently the forums ate it so here I go again.

I've been contemplating about modifying the 2nd edition Nautical/Aviation Handbook's rules for 2k13, adding improved rules for S/VTOL aircraft and such (which would also work, if I continue with my plan to create rules for cybernetics on the Reflex-system, since honestly speaking, one could say we already have some minor cybernetics IRL (the iLimb hand prosthesis, for an example) - I've been playing a lot of Deus Ex: Human Revolution lately ). Of course, converting weapon rules and creating vehicular templates require a lot of work, so if there's anyone willing to take on part of the burden, I'd be happy to hand it out.

Also, I've got medical rules upgrade for Reflex-system in the works, partially due to my civvie profession/MOS. While the original rules are good, I kind of wanted to create a more thorough Stage III ruleset for all things medical, should people wish to have an even more realistic model for treating the wounds and illnesses.

[kota1342000]

Conversion from version 2 to 3 is kind of a hot button topic as far as Im concerned. Ive been looking at some of the heavy weapon stats from t2013 and they arent that different from the version 2 data. For heavy and large caliber weapons, I think we should create a couple more range bands past extreme.
...this was a quick train of thought I had when going through the basic rules. Ive been working on a huge bunch of characters lately and havent followed up yet.

And I LOVE the idea of stage III medical rules, having been an EMT Im actually kind of drooling to see what you come up with

[Tegyrius]

Originally Posted by kota1342000

Conversion from version 2 to 3 is kind of a hot button topic as far as Im concerned. Ive been looking at some of the heavy weapon stats from t2013 and they arent that different from the version 2 data. For heavy and large caliber weapons, I think we should create a couple more range bands past extreme.

Already done. Page 43:

http://www.de-fenestra.com/personal/...our_Engine.pdf

- C.

[Medic]

Like Clayton said, the range bands have been expanded enough (and practically can be expanded even further to allow the use of AIM-54 Phoenix missiles, if necessary).

As for the medical rules, I'm an ex-EMT/Paramedic with about eleven years of on-the-job experience, currently undergoing the last steps of my Registered Nurse education and also serving as a combat medic in the Finnish Army territorial unit. The rules are still under work, but I can post the preliminary version for discussion and brainstorming here, if people want.

[kota1342000]

MUAHHH-HAA-HAAA-HAAAAAAA
Outstanding. I was trying to think for names for the longer range bands...EX+1 and such works just as well.
Thanks much!

[Tnchi2a]

Ok looking to find if someone has or wants to come up with stats for the MBT/IFV/CFV for the reflex system.
While I dislike the story I love the system and would like to run some games in it, but I don't have the time to do all the research (Going back to school at 40 yeah me )
I am willing to put up what I have and contribute if people want to do it here also.
So just testing the water to see if anyone wants to do this or already has.

[Medic]

Which one? I've dabbled with creating stats for the Reflex before. I'm no Tegyrius, but I think I could give it a shot.

[Tnchi2a]

Originally Posted by Medic

Which one? I've dabbled with creating stats for the Reflex before. I'm no Tegyrius, but I think I could give it a shot.

So have I, And was just trying to see if we could get all the dabbling in one place.

We could also post links to Official/Unofficial Stats on the internet.
http://www.de-fenestra.com/personal/...3wiki/doku.php

[Medic]

I have had air combat rules for Reflex under works for some time as well as supplemental medical rules. They should be somewhere around this forum - I can dig up the right thread eventually. I have also done some work on my native Finnish military for the Reflex. Throw me a PM with details of what vehicles you want me to take a look at and I'll give it a shot.

[Tnchi2a]

Sorry its taken so long to get back her, but getting ready for classes has taken most of my time
also didnt help that i chopped the tip of my finger off

I was asked awile back what stats i was looking for
Here is a list of all the currently operational MBT in the world
now some of these have been done already so we have a base to start from.

Main Battle Tanks
TAM Tank
M1A1 AIM
SK 105
Leopard 1 BE
M3 Stuart Upgrade
X1A Stuart
X1A2 Stuart
Leopard C2
Leopard C2 uparmored
Type 59 MBT (T-54A)
Type 59-I MBT
Type 59-II MBT
Type 69-II MBT (export)
Type 79 MBT
Type 80 MBT
Type 88 MBT
Type 88B MBT
Type 85-IIAP MBT (export)
Type 99 MBT
T-55 w/105mm
AMX-13 Export 105mm
AMX-30
AMX-30 B2*
Leclerc
Leopard 1A5
Leopard 2A4
Leopard 2A5
Leopard 2A6
Vijayanta (Vickers Mk.I )
Arjun Mk 1*
Merkava 2B
Merkava 3
Merkava 3B Baz
Merkava 3B Dor Dalet
Merkava 4*
Sabra II
C1 Ariete
C1 Ariete Mk 2
OF-40
Type 74 MBT
Type 90 MBT
Type 10 MBT
Al-Khalid
Al-Hussein (Challanger 1)
Leopard 1-V
Ch’onma-ho I (Ga)(T-62 with thinner armour)
Ch’onma-ho II MBT (Imported T-62s)
Ch’onma-ho IM (Improved imported T-62)
Ch’onma-ho III(Da) MBT
Ch’onma-ho IV(Ra) MBT
Ch’onma-ho V(Ma) MBT
Pokpung-Ho (Seems to be a copy of the Modern T-72BM?)
NM-116
PT-91*
PT-91A*
T-72M1Z*
T-34/85
T-54
T-54B
T-55/T-55A
T-55MV-1 / T-55AMV-1
T-62 /T-62A
T-62M
T-62M1
T-62MV
T-64B1
T-64BV1
T-64R
T-72
T-72M Export
T-72A
T-72M1 Export
T-72B
T-72S Export
T-72B1
T-72M1M Export
T-72BM
T-80
T-80B*
T-80U*
T-80UM*
T-80UD*
T-90
T-90A
T-90S Export
Olifant 1 (Centurion)
Olifant 1A
Olifant 1B
K1A MBT
K2 Black Panther
Strv 121 (Leopard 2A4)
Strv 122 (Leopard 2A5)
Pz 68 MBT (being withdrawn from service)
M41 Walker Bulldog
M41D Walker Bulldog
CM-11 (M48H)*
CM-12 (M48A3 upgd)*
Stingray
M48A5T1
M48A5T2
Vickers Mk 3
Challenger 2
M5 Stuart
M47M (export only)
M48A1
M48A3
M48A5
M60A1
M60A3
M1A1
M1A1HA / M1A1HC
M1A1D
M1A2
M1A2 SEP
M1A2 TUSK
M1A1 Export
M1A2 Export
Zulfiqar

as you can see theres alot of them so its more then a one man job

[unkated]

I'll apologize if this is not the right place, but can someone summarise the differences between the mechanics of T2013 vs T2K V2.2?

Thanks,

Uncle Ted

[swaghauler]

Originally Posted by unkated

I'll apologize if this is not the right place, but can someone summarise the differences between the mechanics of T2013 vs T2K V2.2?

Thanks,

Uncle Ted

This is the perfect place to explain the mechanics of the various Twilight versions for anyone who hasn't had exposure to all of them.

Version 1: A percentile based game (you have a 40% chance to hit him).

Version 2: A slightly simplified system that included the revolutionary recoil rules and a Skill System based on a 1d10 roll.

Version 2.2: An "enhanced" version 2 rule set that transitioned to the 1D20 die roll system and added a "controlling attribute" to the skill level which created an asset for a beginning target number (ie. Small Arms skill level 2 + AGL of 6 equals an asset of 8). Version 2.2 was the most "polished" of the editions but I believe version 1 was "smoother" in play for most beginning players. It's hard to beat a simple percentile system.

Twilight 2013: The game to uses a specialized gaming system called The Reflex System. In the Reflex system; The character's attributes (base attributes are from 1 to 10) are used as "base target numbers" for any skills the character has learned. This base target number is modified by various bonuses and penalties. Skill levels are not used directly for task resolution though. The character's skill levels are referenced on a chart to get a "Skill Rating" from Unskilled through to Master Ratings. Each of these ratings allow one or more dice (from 1 die for Novice, up to 5 dice for Master) to be rolled. To determine your success in the Reflex System; You take the lowest successful die roll and subtract it from your target number. To this number you will add +2 for EACH additional successful die roll. The total of these numbers is your Margin of Success. This Margin of Success is used to determine the effect of your success in game. You would also have a Margin of Failure if none of your dice rolls succeeded. Twilight 2013 had some issues due to the complexity of the Reflex System (they can be math heavy and therefore cumbersome in use) but was pretty well written. Some of the rules are better than the previous editions. I like the reconstruction rules, The psychological damage rules and the rules on Coolness Under Fire (the best thought out of these rules in all of the editions).

In fact; I'm mixing and matching the aspects of all of the editions which I think work the best. I primarily use the version 2.2 rules but include elements of all the editions in my game.

[Damocles]

Yeah, you know, just whip up stats for ever freaking vehicle in the world.. LOL

And once done with every single MBT.. we have every SINGLE IFV to start on!!

BWAAA!!! Can't... stop... laughing...

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

Sorry its taken so long to get back her, but getting ready for classes has taken most of my time
also didnt help that i chopped the tip of my finger off

I was asked awile back what stats i was looking for
Here is a list of all the currently operational MBT in the world
now some of these have been done already so we have a base to start from.

Main Battle Tanks
TAM Tank
M1A1 AIM
SK 105
Leopard 1 BE
M3 Stuart Upgrade
X1A Stuart
X1A2 Stuart
Leopard C2
Leopard C2 uparmored
Type 59 MBT (T-54A)
Type 59-I MBT
Type 59-II MBT
Type 69-II MBT (export)
Type 79 MBT
Type 80 MBT
Type 88 MBT
Type 88B MBT
Type 85-IIAP MBT (export)
Type 99 MBT
T-55 w/105mm
AMX-13 Export 105mm
AMX-30
AMX-30 B2*
Leclerc
Leopard 1A5
Leopard 2A4
Leopard 2A5
Leopard 2A6
Vijayanta (Vickers Mk.I )
Arjun Mk 1*
Merkava 2B
Merkava 3
Merkava 3B Baz
Merkava 3B Dor Dalet
Merkava 4*
Sabra II
C1 Ariete
C1 Ariete Mk 2
OF-40
Type 74 MBT
Type 90 MBT
Type 10 MBT
Al-Khalid
Al-Hussein (Challanger 1)
Leopard 1-V
Ch’onma-ho I (Ga)(T-62 with thinner armour)
Ch’onma-ho II MBT (Imported T-62s)
Ch’onma-ho IM (Improved imported T-62)
Ch’onma-ho III(Da) MBT
Ch’onma-ho IV(Ra) MBT
Ch’onma-ho V(Ma) MBT
Pokpung-Ho (Seems to be a copy of the Modern T-72BM?)
NM-116
PT-91*
PT-91A*
T-72M1Z*
T-34/85
T-54
T-54B
T-55/T-55A
T-55MV-1 / T-55AMV-1
T-62 /T-62A
T-62M
T-62M1
T-62MV
T-64B1
T-64BV1
T-64R
T-72
T-72M Export
T-72A
T-72M1 Export
T-72B
T-72S Export
T-72B1
T-72M1M Export
T-72BM
T-80
T-80B*
T-80U*
T-80UM*
T-80UD*
T-90
T-90A
T-90S Export
Olifant 1 (Centurion)
Olifant 1A
Olifant 1B
K1A MBT
K2 Black Panther
Strv 121 (Leopard 2A4)
Strv 122 (Leopard 2A5)
Pz 68 MBT (being withdrawn from service)
M41 Walker Bulldog
M41D Walker Bulldog
CM-11 (M48H)*
CM-12 (M48A3 upgd)*
Stingray
M48A5T1
M48A5T2
Vickers Mk 3
Challenger 2
M5 Stuart
M47M (export only)
M48A1
M48A3
M48A5
M60A1
M60A3
M1A1
M1A1HA / M1A1HC
M1A1D
M1A2
M1A2 SEP
M1A2 TUSK
M1A1 Export
M1A2 Export
Zulfiqar

as you can see theres alot of them so its more then a one man job

[kato13]

Originally Posted by Damocles

Yeah, you know, just whip up stats for ever freaking vehicle in the world.. LOL

And once done with every single MBT.. we have every SINGLE IFV to start on!!

BWAAA!!! Can't... stop... laughing...

Paul has done it

[Tnchi2a]

Heres the first of the Tanks


AMX-56 Leclerc (Séries XXI)
.
Barter Value: GG3,650,000
Street Price: $7,300,000
Configuration: Turreted
Suspension: Trk
Crew: 3 (driver, commander, loader)
Cargo:
Weight: 60 Tons
Travel Speed: 22/14 km/hr
Combat Speed: 58/44 m
Fuel: 1,300L (D) (+ 400 L drop tank)
Fuel Cons: 128 L/hr
Maintenance: 26
Armor: HF-105cp, HS-36cp, HR-31; TF-188cp, TS-50cp, TR-26; Susp-24.
Equipment
Armament: GIAT CN120-26/52 120mm tank gun (Good stabilization); coaxial M2HB (G); weapons mount (C; typically MAG).
Ammo: 40 rounds of 120mm; 1,100 rounds 12.7mm ammo; 3,000 rounds of belted 7.62x51mm ammo.
Comm: Military vehicular radio; Tactical data net
Sensors: Headlights; variable magnification (Mag-0 or Mag-3) optical gunsights (C, G); Mag-1 night vision gunsights (C, G); laser rangefinder.
Aux: Autoloader; NBC defense system.

Note: there is talk of a ERA package but, I could not find any concrete info for this.

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

Sorry its taken so long to get back her, but getting ready for classes has taken most of my time
also didnt help that i chopped the tip of my finger off

I was asked awile back what stats i was looking for
Here is a list of all the currently operational MBT in the world
now some of these have been done already so we have a base to start from.

Main Battle Tanks
TAM Tank
M1A1 AIM
SK 105
Leopard 1 BE
M3 Stuart Upgrade
X1A Stuart
X1A2 Stuart
Leopard C2
Leopard C2 uparmored
Type 59 MBT (T-54A)
Type 59-I MBT
Type 59-II MBT
Type 69-II MBT (export)
Type 79 MBT
Type 80 MBT
Type 88 MBT
Type 88B MBT
Type 85-IIAP MBT (export)
Type 99 MBT
T-55 w/105mm
AMX-13 Export 105mm
AMX-30
AMX-30 B2*
Leclerc
Leopard 1A5
Leopard 2A4
Leopard 2A5
Leopard 2A6
Vijayanta (Vickers Mk.I )
Arjun Mk 1*
Merkava 2B
Merkava 3
Merkava 3B Baz
Merkava 3B Dor Dalet
Merkava 4*
Sabra II
C1 Ariete
C1 Ariete Mk 2
OF-40
Type 74 MBT
Type 90 MBT
Type 10 MBT
Al-Khalid
Al-Hussein (Challanger 1)
Leopard 1-V
Ch’onma-ho I (Ga)(T-62 with thinner armour)
Ch’onma-ho II MBT (Imported T-62s)
Ch’onma-ho IM (Improved imported T-62)
Ch’onma-ho III(Da) MBT
Ch’onma-ho IV(Ra) MBT
Ch’onma-ho V(Ma) MBT
Pokpung-Ho (Seems to be a copy of the Modern T-72BM?)
NM-116
PT-91*
PT-91A*
T-72M1Z*
T-34/85
T-54
T-54B
T-55/T-55A
T-55MV-1 / T-55AMV-1
T-62 /T-62A
T-62M
T-62M1
T-62MV
T-64B1
T-64BV1
T-64R
T-72
T-72M Export
T-72A
T-72M1 Export
T-72B
T-72S Export
T-72B1
T-72M1M Export
T-72BM
T-80
T-80B*
T-80U*
T-80UM*
T-80UD*
T-90
T-90A
T-90S Export
Olifant 1 (Centurion)
Olifant 1A
Olifant 1B
K1A MBT
K2 Black Panther
Strv 121 (Leopard 2A4)
Strv 122 (Leopard 2A5)
Pz 68 MBT (being withdrawn from service)
M41 Walker Bulldog
M41D Walker Bulldog
CM-11 (M48H)*
CM-12 (M48A3 upgd)*
Stingray
M48A5T1
M48A5T2
Vickers Mk 3
Challenger 2
M5 Stuart
M47M (export only)
M48A1
M48A3
M48A5
M60A1
M60A3
M1A1
M1A1HA / M1A1HC
M1A1D
M1A2
M1A2 SEP
M1A2 TUSK
M1A1 Export
M1A2 Export
Zulfiqar

as you can see theres alot of them so its more then a one man job

Start with a list of basic tanks first, the variants can be done later. Or pick a specific region and do the combatants most common AFV's first, then variants.

[Medic]

I would suggest merging this thread with this one: http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.p...2013#post55151

[Tnchi2a]

well Medic it looks like were the only ones around here who like 2013

[Medic]

There are others. Tegyrius, for an example, has written some official material for it, not to mention the Czech sourcebook and vehicle compendium.

[Tegyrius]

Hm?

I think my stuff's already been linked in this thread. Not sure what else I can contribute without a request for a specific model of vehicle or weapon. "MBT/IFV/CFV" doesn't tell me much.

- C.

[cavtroop]

Originally Posted by Medic

There are others. Tegyrius, for an example, has written some official material for it, not to mention the Czech sourcebook and vehicle compendium.

I'm one of them! I'm on record here as loving T:2k13. I just don't have anyone to play a game with

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Tnchi2a

well Medic it looks like were the only ones around here who like 2013

It can grow on you. I'm trying it again, my T2K2.2 work stems from overlap with Dark Conspiracy.

[Milano]

If anyone is still playing around with TW2013 I could sure use alittle help with creating small arms. I would like to plug in the numbers into an excel file I created but am still having issues with the formulas to get to some of the numbers.

It was mentioned that there were some other forums out there that had come up with some of them. Might someone have the link or a name? Or even better any formulas or insights?

[.45cultist]

Originally Posted by Milano

If anyone is still playing around with TW2013 I could sure use alittle help with creating small arms. I would like to plug in the numbers into an excel file I created but am still having issues with the formulas to get to some of the numbers.

It was mentioned that there were some other forums out there that had come up with some of them. Might someone have the link or a name? Or even better any formulas or insights?

93 Studios is defunct but those people are here. If you look most calibers are present, you might just need the weight and possible quirks.

[Milano]

I have access to all of the information but I want to find the equation to make the data. That they come up with. There are inconsistencies in their published data and before I just guesstimate I would like to know why or what they did to come up with it.

I have an Excel spreadsheet with ALL of their small arms on it but I don't want to post it because of copyright stuff.

But an example is the M21 weight is 5.2 length is 1118 mm. The speed is 4/6/9. The M16 DMR (their vernacular) is 5.4 length of 1187 speed of 4/6/8. Why the quicker speed? the M21 is both lighter and shorter.

Another example is the difference between the C7a2 and M16a3. Why does the M16a3 have a range of M/S and the C7 have a range of T/S?

Or the M4 has a recoil of 5, the 416 has a recoil of 4 yet the M4 weighs less?

Anyway, I am just a function freak or possibly my OCD is showing up but I dislike inconsistency.

[Medic]

Supacat Jackal
Barter Value: GG312,500
Street Price: $625,000
Configuration: Standard
Suspension: OR
Crew: 3 (driver, commander, gunner) + 1 (optionally two more seats can be installed in the back, reducing cargo by 500kg)
Cargo: 2,100 kg
Weight: 5,5 tons
Travel Speed: 40/30 km/hr
Combat Speed: 111/83m
Fuel: 200 L (D)
Fuel Cons: 10 L/hr
Maintenance: 9
Armor: HF 9, HS 8, HR 7; Susp 4. Hull AV’s double against explosions from beneath and triples against blast and fragmentation.
Equipment
Armament: Mount for up to Medium MG (C), mount for HMG or GMG (G), 4 smoke grenade launchers (4-rounds each, optional).
Ammo: As cargo.
Comm: Option to install one Military Vehicular Radio with Vehicle Aerial.
Sensors: Headlights.
Aux: Self-recovery winch.

[Medic]

Originally Posted by Milano

Another example is the difference between the C7a2 and M16a3. Why does the M16a3 have a range of M/S and the C7 have a range of T/S?

I suspect, it is because the C7A2 has a telescopic stock, unlike the M16A3.

Or the M4 has a recoil of 5, the 416 has a recoil of 4 yet the M4 weighs less?

Exactly because of that. With the same round, the weapon with less weight gains more inertia through the recoil.