Twilight 2013 to end publication in December 2010

[Jason Weiser]

Thought I would pass this along:

http://www.93gamesstudio.com/forum/v...php?f=5&t=2982

Originally Posted by Smokewolf

I want to thank each and everyone on the forum for their participation and they're level of respect for each other. I've seen a ton of discussions on here and very rarely have I had to say anything to anyone. I think that is a testament to the players who respect this game and who have kept it alive all of these years.

This is probably the hardest post I've every had to make on any forum I belong to. The license for the use of Twilight: 2000 and its supplements runs out Dec. 31, 2010. For personal reasons, I've decided not to renew the license. At which time I'm also going to close the doors on 93 Games Studio.

I am working to pass on the rights of the Reflex system to a new publisher who will continue to bring forth new products for this amazing engine. As this progresses I will keep you posted.

I haven't decided what will happen with the forums yet. My hope is that the new owner of the Reflex system will take them over and there will be no disruption of service. For the meantime though the forum will remain open.

It's been an amazing 9 years (total time 93GS has operated) and I'll treasure my time with everyone.



BTW, in case you are wondering, there is still stock available. Please let me know if you are interested in scooping some of them up.

[kato13]

That is a real bummer. I hope the reflex system finds a home.

[Targan]

Huh. I'm really surprised at this development. It is sad. Still, following on from Teygyrius's withdrawal from involvement in 93 Games Studio's publications I guess the writing was on the wall that all was not well. It must be really difficult to be an independent RPG publisher these days.

[cavtroop]

Originally Posted by Targan

It must be really difficult to be an independent RPG publisher these days.

yeah, I think that's the long and short of it. The RPG industry just isn't what it used to be, not even close. It's (impossibly) hard to make a living at it. I help a friend that is mildly successful in publishing Pathfinder PDF's, and he pulls in several dozen dollars a month, at the most.

The Halycon days of RPG publishing are long gone. The industry has contracted, and MMOs and Millenials are eating it's lunch.

Very sad to see Twilight:2013 go away, I really like the system, just can't find anyone to play it with, which I guess is symptomatic, eh?

[Legbreaker]

What's even sadder is that NONE of the T:2013 materials made it into this part of the world. They might as well not exist from looking in the various stores that could have stocked it.
My guess is the distributors could have done a better job....

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

What's even sadder is that NONE of the T:2013 materials made it into this part of the world. They might as well not exist from looking in the various stores that could have stocked it.
My guess is the distributors could have done a better job....

I believe this had less to do with distributors and more with 93 Games. International sales were not given much consideration from what I've seen on their own website
My thoughts; they produced too many gun books at the expense of role playing material

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

What's even sadder is that NONE of the T:2013 materials made it into this part of the world.

Ditto for my part of the World (granted there aren't that many RPG stores in my part of the World!).

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by cavtroop

Very sad to see Twilight:2013 go away, I really like the system, just can't find anyone to play it with, which I guess is symptomatic, eh?

Cav,

If they'd have ever gotten the vehicle combat system and other rules sorted out I would have like to have given the Reflex rules a shot for my T2K game. Background aside, there was a lot of cool detail there.

As for availability, I live in Canada and never saw anything in actual print. That's pretty unusual, we generally see most of what's on the market eventually. I really wanted to like this game but those three factors made it a losing proposition on a personal level, and didn't help in today's market.

Tony

[pmulcahy11b]

Originally Posted by cavtroop

The Halycon days of RPG publishing are long gone. The industry has contracted, and MMOs and Millenials are eating it's lunch.

They could maybe make an MMO version of T2K? But true roleplaying would lose out to the combat...I think a good T2K MMO would need more AI on the part of its servers.

[Eddie]

Well, the license comes open in December...

Richard, I know you had big ideas to revitalize T:2K...

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Eddie

Well, the license comes open in December...

Richard, I know you had big ideas to revitalize T:2K...

Yes... i did.

It was going to be a big idea for the game set up. even drew up mock ups for the covers of the core rulebook and each of the sourcebooks. If anyone is interested in what i wanted to do.. i can post it here and have everyone though their two cents in and possibly get a damn good set up (and help bridge the gaps from my brain damage).

[Legbreaker]

Hmm, I wonder what the licence would cost.....

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Hmm, I wonder what the licence would cost.....

THat I don't know... but wish i did!

[Dog 6]

lets try and find out.

[Snake Eyes]

Why only 2013? Is piracy of earlier versions OK or something?

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes

Why only 2013? Is piracy of earlier versions OK or something?

I think so. But that's just my opinion. Some people out there are interested in the game but can't afford the money to spare on a PDF, but costs 0$ for me to duplicate. If it means helping people enjoy the game (and participate in my online game) then I won't hesitate to do so.

I'm not going to encourage others to do the same, but I'm also not going to stop either. The more people with the opportunity to experience the 1/2.2 the better I think.

[Raellus]

I think the issue with T2013 is that it's all just happened recently. The wounds are raw. Tegyrius and Keith just watched hundreds of hours of their hard work fall to pieces. They can still recoup some of their costs if people pay for the merch that they produced. This is not a cash cow. They'll be lucky if they break even. Actively undermining their efforts to recoup some of the costs on this forum is somewhat of a personal attack. That's what I don't want to see here. I'm not advocating that sort of wheeling and dealing here (I purchased both the v1.0 and v2.2 rulebooks- used- at over original cover price and I bought the original v1.0 box back in the day) but if you really must, please conduct that sort of business via PM.

As for earlier versions of T2K, the people that hold the liscenses and sell the PDFs had nothing, AFAIK, to do with the creation or sale IMO of the original T2K products. IMHO, it should all be open-source now (i.e. free), but that's not how it works. DriveThru and other "legit" sources must be making a killing selling PDFs since they cost nothing to produce. Whatever. I understand what Eddie and Snake are saying. We shouldn't be using a public forum to conduct activities that are technically illegal.

[Snake Eyes]

I guess somebody probably ought to check with Marc Miller and verify that pirating that other stuff is really OK with him. I'm sure he's cool with it. Not like there's any real money at stake.

Far Future Enterprises
1418 N Clinton Blvd
Bloomington, IL 61701 USA

Email: farfuture@gmail.com

http://www.farfuture.net

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes

I guess somebody probably ought to check with Marc Miller and verify that pirating that other stuff is really OK with him. I'm sure he's cool with it. Not like there's any real money at stake.

Snake,

When those mugs send me the T5 I pre-paid for, we'll talk.

(Not that I really mind, of course, my dough is going towards developing their future product.)

The truth is, I don't need Marc Miller to tell me what he thinks I should download, when or for what purpose. The laws and customs of where I live are different than yours, as all ya'all would say I don't have a dog in this hunt. Besides, I think we all use some copyright material without permission, it's not the end of the world.

As for T2013, I already bought two copies with real money, I'm encouraging others to do the same if they want, and there it is. Merry Christmas to you, and to everyone!

Tony

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Raellus

Tegyrius and Keith just watched hundreds of hours of their hard work fall to pieces.

For the record, my name is on the Designed by: line as well. It's a little personal to me, too.

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes

Why only 2013? Is piracy of earlier versions OK or something?

Snake,

There's more of a hot button issue with T2103 as Tegyrius and others have worked on it, and it's a more current product. In other words it's more of a direct affront to them, personally. Not some point of abstract legal principle that isn't universal, largely given lip service where it is but otherwise mostly ignored.

Give T2013 twenty years like T2K, we'll see if anyone cares at that point about who's pirating it any more than T2K. At that point, I would welcome it if there were still a dedicated community and fan base for T2013, even if not all have paid. At least they're playing it or otherwise keeping it alive.

In the end I don't think anyone would flip if I were to mention that I just downloaded scans of all the SPI Moves magazines, S&T #1-60 and Ares magazine. Score!

Tony

[Twilight2000v3MM]

Tony,

There's atleast 4 of us on this forum that worked on the game (Teg, Eddie, Snake and I).

Originally Posted by helbent4

Snake,

There's more of a hot button issue with T2103 as Tegyrius and others have worked on it, and it's a more current product. In other words it's more of a direct affront to them, personally. Not some point of abstract legal principle that isn't universal, largely given lip service where it is but otherwise mostly ignored.

Give T2013 twenty years like T2K, we'll see if anyone cares at that point about who's pirating it any more than T2K. At that point, I would welcome it if there were still a dedicated community and fan base for T2013, even if not all have paid. At least they're playing it or otherwise keeping it alive.

In the end I don't think anyone would flip if I were to mention that I just downloaded scans of all the SPI Moves magazines, S&T #1-60 and Ares magazine. Score!

Tony

[helbent4]

Originally Posted by Twilight2000v3MM

Tony,

There's atleast 4 of us on this forum that worked on the game (Teg, Eddie, Snake and I).

Max,

That's wonderful to hear!

Kudos to you all for your work, as I said I picked up the bundle and may use it some time. If any of the money I've paid goes into your pockets then I'm more than happy. Further, I'm glad to direct people to where they can buy it as well, looks like at least one other person made a buy.

Even if you're not getting paid in some way, then if people are still playing T2013 in some form decades in the future then you have every right to be proud of your work.

Tony

[helbent4]

Group,

Does anyone know of where, other than the 93DG forum, I might find a compiled list of errata for T2013? I know there is a link on their forum. If 93DG is shutting down and any hypothetical buyer doesn't maintain the forum themselves this could be a serious problem. (I haven't checked the link, does it link to a .pdf or something?)

Thanks!

Tony