Alternatively Armed Armies

[headquarters]

The English longbow men were in no way lightlky trained .They had years of experience in using and maintaining the longbows.

The crossbow on teh other hand takes a lot less practice -around 3 weeks - to get sufficient proficiency .

making a longbow,a recurve bow or a composite bow takes a lot of forgotten skill when it comes to selectring and prepping the wood .

taking the leaf springs out of a disabled car -or other similar steel band and rigging them to a barrel and trigger is way easier ,provided you can salvage whatever you need.

imHo the way to go would be the crossbow,cheaper and easier to make and maintain ,easier to use and of course the tactical advantages in built up areas.
A longbow is nearly 6 feet tall and has a pull of 60 kg !You cant run around doing cqb with that -a little more so a crossbow.

Also the massed battle tactics of the hundred years wars would not apply in
T2K maybe in T2K2300 ,30 years on and a steady downward slide for humanity..

making a bow is difficult .Making something to kill small birds and rabits isnt that hard -but a war bow? A whole set of trade skills on its own.

If you start massing ranks like in the 100 years wars to achieve maximum effect from your bowmen- the guy on the the other end will have a field day with whatever firearms he has left ...

I want to add a few other suggestions:
1) slingshot .Made from a Y shaped object and whatever rubber is available .Bicycle tires,elastic bands etc .It packs a wallop when fired with leadballs and can be cheaply made and trained with .Good for hunting small game and keeping pests at bay too.
Seriously - you could easily kill a man with a headshot from one of these with a leadball at say 50 yards.

2)
blackpowder gun
be it a simple matchlock , flintlock or doglock or percusssion or electrical ignition variety - the firearm is going to have its advantages.Electrical seamless tubing or other high quality steel tubing kan be used -or in a pinch whatever plumbing supplies available.
Lead is available to be salvaged from many sources - think wheel/tire wheights etc .
Gunpowder is a bit more tricky ,but they did it 700 years ago , so I guess someone would be able to in T2K.

Also blackpowder allows for a lot more fun medieval mayhem-machines like the bombard ,mortar,hwacha,firelance and fougasse ( an old claymore mine )

Gunpowder armed ruffians could operate in a pike and shot type organization were melee fighters protect the shooters as they reload ,with someone armed with a modern gun doing overall protection .They could advance and fire and then retreat again to reload again .

For all of trhe above I have to say I believe they would work better in defensive position where you have a room to prepare and keep stores dry etc . rather then on the attack.

Originally Posted by Mohoender

Have you ever used a crossbow? I did for several years and still have one at home (in bad shape). There is plenty of truth it what you all say but you forget a lot of things. Of course, if you can get your hand on a full load of modern types, I'll take them but from what I read, I assumed that was not the case (actually, you'll find much more modrn bows around).

First, a crossbow is relatively heavy. Don't forget that fiberglass is not available any more. Then, you have to go with wood and steel for the mechanism. You end up with something which is heavier than a regular rifle and that you use more like a light machine gun.

Crossbow are also fairly tricky to make unless you go for very simple type with a barrel, a light bow and a small hold to maintain the string in place (then, you end-up with less kinetic power than with a bow, and much reduced range). Otherwise, you need to have a skilled man to make them. The quarrels are also more tricky to make than arrows. Bows are easier to make, and you can start with simple models. When your bow maker gets better he can make you long bows and finally the small highly maneuverable type used by mongols (almost a light machine gun).

I agree that you need less training but some people use bows from instinct. Just select the good guys and train them (arrows are easy to make). I also remind you that the british archers who decimated the french chivalry were lightly trained peasants.

Have you ever tried to bend a crossbow? First it takes time. Then, it takes a lot of strength, even for the smallest modern ones. If you have to make ones using woods, you'll end up with something that can't be bent without mechanical device. I'll leave you the crossbows and take the swords, axes, spears and morning stars (Banzaï). With bows, you can train women and children to use them while the men wait for the shock.

Last and not the least important. bows can achieve indirect fire at a range of more than 200 yards. Therefore, I'll position my archers behind the walls (in second line) and fire arrows at you before you even can see me (not very accurate but I have plenty of supply and I'll clear your ranks). With crossbows you'll be using direct fire and your crew will be more exposed. In addition, with a bow I'll be able to fire 4-5 times before the ennemy get to my footmen (then they can continue to fire in direct support) while the crossbow will fire twice at most (In support of those same footmen your corssbowmen can do little because their weapon is too heavy and bulky and, then, your crews are killed trying to bend it once more).

Actually, ideally, I would use both weapons. Bows as regular second line, used in fair concentration. Crossbows (exactly as described) as support weapons provided I can fire them from cover (the shield is a fun idea). I leave my footmen in first line waiting for the shock.

Why do you think crossbows never supplanted bows IRL?