Australia Twilight War & After...

[RN7]

I understand your point and agree to some extend (in case of an all out nuclear war). However, that is not what happens in the twilight war. Why would the Soviets wipe out Australia and only lightly strike at the USA? I agree that a few SS-18 will do the job but simply what would be the point of doing it in such a context?

Its just a list of potential targets, and example of what the Soviets could do to Australia if they wanted to do it.

I just don't get the logic behind this except if you understand the Twilight War as an all out nuclear war. But in that case welcome to an entirely different game.

That list can be used for anyones game or interpretation of Twilight 2000.

I definitely underestimated the importance of facilities such as Pine Gap (definitely not all in the South East) and finally blew them up but I don't see the point of sending that many SS-18 to Australia

The SS-18 is the only Soviet ICBM that can reach any target in Australia, particularly the highly developed and populated south east.

while according to the game not even one get to the US (probably because they are destroyed first hand by US). I reverted that in my game but in the original T2K the SS-18 bases are all gone (at least those the T2K original team could know of). Just because of that simple fact, it still can't be done. Of course, I'm not thinking IRL terms, If you do that is an entirely different matter again.

The reason why the SS-18 wasn't used against the US may be because it wasn't needed as other Soviet ICBMs can do the job. Also who attacked who first in the Twilight War, was it the US or the Soviets? If it was the US then how did the Soviets strike the US if the US had taken out all their silos before they could retaliate. If it was the Soviets then how come the US managed to take out the SS-18 silos before the Soviets used them.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Mohoender

The reason why the SS-18 wasn't used against the US may be because it wasn't needed as other Soviet ICBMs can do the job. Also who attacked who first in the Twilight War, was it the US or the Soviets? If it was the US then how did the Soviets strike the US if the US had taken out all their silos before they could retaliate. If it was the Soviets then how come the US managed to take out the SS-18 silos before the Soviets used them.

Here you are forgetting about boomers and aircrafts. Then, in the game (always v2.2) the four Russian SS-18 bases were targeted and destroyed and there is no point to do that if the missiles are already launched (especially as no one hits any target anywere). That alone would explain why US wasn't hit by SS-18. Two things make me think that most of this comes from insufficient knowledge from the original T2K team (they didn't have internet and many informations were unavailable). Out of the 7 other bases destroyed in USSR, 3 are SS-26 (actual Iskander) and 1 is SS-27 (commissioned only after 1998). There is also no reason for them to have forgotten the 2 bases in Kazakhstan and especially/only these ones.

So to answer your question:
- All ICBM bases are not listed as destroyed but if two SS-18 bases remain why not use any of them (104) against US/Canada and their highly strategic targets?
- To retaliate the soviets still have boomers and aircrafts+mobile ICBM fire units (about 300 SS-25).
- If the soviets starts, it is possible that they don't send SS-18 in the first place. However, I would agree that it is highly unlikely. On the other hand, again, why leaving about 80 SS-18 in their Silos while they are the best suited weapons to take out NORAD, the US ICBM bases and even Washington DC?

In addition, according to the game text (again v2.2), both sides refrain from targetting the other side's ICBM land base for quite some times. At last, they do: All 4 US bases are taken out (Forks, Malmstrom, Minot & Warren +Vandenberg) and almost all Soviets bases in Russia with the base in others republics not accounted for (most likely forgotten). Then, they are two possibilities: All missiles are destroyed before being launched or they are launched before the bases are destroyed and, then, SS-18 should be accounted for all over (there are none/according to your own account most Satan were equipped with 20Mt warheads, they would have been used). I grant you that the Mt listed are highly questionable and can be open to debate (but that will become endless)

For my parts (I mean in my game), I use several SS-18 but only on highly strategic targets. They are not used extensively because the first strike is successful in decapitating the US ICBM force. Then, in turn, the Soviets' ICBM force (silo only) is decapitated by strikes from SLBM.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Well there's been quite a lot of information generated about the nuclear weapon aspects of Australia but I think it's worth discussing some of the smaller points also. For example, the list of weapons available to PC groups, so I offer up the following. It's a small list of firearms available just from Australian sources (e.g. military, police) up to about 1996 and certainly not comprehensive.

.38 Smith & Wesson service revolver (don't know the type)
9mmP Browning HP
9mmP SIG P226 (limited numbers for trails with SASR and other special units)

9mmP F1 SMG
9mmP Owen Gun (very limited numbers)
9mmP MP5
9mmP MP5SD (limited numbers)
9mmP L34A1 (limited numbers)
various police/civilian pistols such as 9mm Glocks, CZ75 & CZ85, M1911 competition variants and up to .44 Desert Eagle and 9mmP Uzi Pistol

.303 SMLE
.303 Jungle Carbine (can't think of the proper designation)
5.56mm M16A1
5.56mm F88 (AUG) rifle
5.56mm F88 carbine
5.56mm M4 Carbine (used by Commando Regiment for amphibious tasks)
7.62mmN L1A1
7.62mmN L2A1 (automatic rifle)
various civilian versions of military rifles like the M16, G3, Chinese Type 63 (AKA type 68) and M14
various ex-military semi-autos such as the SKS, M1 Carbine
various ex-military bolt-action rifles such as Swedish Mauser types, Kar-98K etc.

5.56mm F89 Minimi
7.62mm L4A4 Bren Gun
.303 Vickers Gun (very limited number & used only in the training role, some were supposed to be converted to 7.62mmN)
7.62mm M60
7.62mm MAG58
.30-06 M1919A4 (can't recall the local designation)
12.7mm M2 BMG

Various pump-action and semi-auto shotguns from police & civilian sources.
There's also the potential for a very limited number of L85A1 and FN FNC rifles from Papua New Guinea as their Army bought small numbers for trails.

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by StainlessSteelCynic

7.62mmN L2A1 (automatic rifle)

VERY rare. In all my years in the infantry I've seen a total of, one, count 'em, 1 L2A1 in working condition plus one in the infantry museum at Singleton near Newcastle.
This doesn't mean that they aren't relatively plentiful in other areas, just that they're not standard issue in the units I was in or associated with.

[StainlessSteelCynic]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

VERY rare. In all my years in the infantry I've seen a total of, one, count 'em, 1 L2A1 in working condition plus one in the infantry museum at Singleton near Newcastle.
This doesn't mean that they aren't relatively plentiful in other areas, just that they're not standard issue in the units I was in or associated with.

I do find it very interesting the way the Army seemed to hand out it's equipment. One of my friends joined an armoured recce regiment in Sydney and they had about 12 L2A1s apparently and the infantry unit in Western Australia he was in later had about 6 but that unit also had a Series III Landrover while all the other units had 110s and had complained that support units were getting the Austcam uniforms while his infantry unit was still in JGs!

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

VERY rare. In all my years in the infantry I've seen a total of, one, count 'em, 1 L2A1 in working condition plus one in the infantry museum at Singleton near Newcastle.

Same here. I've only ever seen one in working condition and I never actually saw it fired.

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Targan

Same here. I've only ever seen one in working condition and I never actually saw it fired.

Weren't you producing the F1? What would be of these?

Oops realized that the L2A1 was a version of the FN-FAL/L1A1 produced in very little number by Australia.

What about the F1, nevertheless? Are there still some Owen around?

[Legbreaker]

I trained briefly with the F1 SMG waaaaay back in early 91. They were withdrawn from my unit within months of my arrival. A very simple weapon, although being a 9mm, I can't speak all that highly of effectiveness.

As for the Owen, I believe they went out of service back in the 60's. The F1 replaced it with the vast majority of Owens being destroyed. A few might be found "off the books" in unit armouries, but don't count on them being in working order (hard to ask the armourer to maintain them without parts and authorisation).

Besides the issued L1A1 SLRs, M60's, handful of M16A1s and the odd M203 (the latter two received as hand-me-downs from another unit which had received their F88 Steyr AUG earlier), my first unit had a Bren gun, two SMLEs and an ancient Martini Henry tucked away up the back of the company armoury.