Alternate British Armed Forces stuff...

[natehale1971]

Even after having been folded into the Regular Army, would they still have the title as having original been Territorial Army units? Ie... the (TA) after their name? Or is that removed?

In the US we have the Regular Army, the Army National Guard and Conscripts that are brought together to create the Army of the United States (AUS).

On our dogtags the service number would be followed up with RA for regular army, ARNG for National Guard and AUS for drafted personnel. is there anything like that for the British dogtags?

[95th Rifleman]

Nope, goes back to the Regimental system.

Most TA units are a battalion of a regular Regiment, I'll give you an example.

The Rifles

The Rifles have 5 regular battalions, 1st Btn is a commando unit, 2nd and 3rd are light infantry, 4th is mechanised and 5th is Armoured.

In the british army a mechanised Btn uses older APCs while Armoured infantry use the Warrior IFV.

The Rifles have two TA Btns 6th and 7th.

When the brown stuff hits the rotary air cooling device, the 6th and 7th will be folded into the regular Btns and will just become regular infantry.

TA are essentilay part-time regulars who share the regimental identity of their parent unit. It's a very different system to the US natonal guards.

[Rainbow Six]

To be fair, during the Cold War the TA had slightly different roles. Looking purely at the Infantry there were iirc - (I'm doing this from memory and while my boss isn't looking) forty one TA Infantry battalions. Fourteen were slated for home defence, whilst the remainder were allocated a BAOR reinforcement role - Cold War plans called for virtually the entire 2nd Infantry Division to be formed from Territorials. They would have fought as organised Battalions (their role iirc was to defend the rear areas and supply lines).

However since the end of the Cold War the TA have served primarily to reinforce Regular units, much as 95th Rifleman has outlined with the Rifles. For example most regular units serving in Afghanistan at the moment will have TA soldiers who have volunteered to serve on an individual basis, so a TA Paratrooper who is nominally part of the 4th Battalion (the TA's only remaining Para Bn) would be attached to one of teh Regular Para Battalions for a tour on Afghanistan.

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

To be fair, during the Cold War the TA had slightly different roles. Looking purely at the Infantry there were iirc - (I'm doing this from memory and while my boss isn't looking) forty one TA Infantry battalions. Fourteen were slated for home defence, whilst the remainder were allocated a BAOR reinforcement role - Cold War plans called for virtually the entire 2nd Infantry Division to be formed from Territorials. They would have fought as organised Battalions (their role iirc was to defend the rear areas and supply lines).

However since the end of the Cold War the TA have served primarily to reinforce Regular units, much as 95th Rifleman has outlined with the Rifles. For example most regular units serving in Afghanistan at the moment will have TA soldiers who have volunteered to serve on an individual basis, so a TA Paratrooper who is nominally part of the 4th Battalion (the TA's only remaining Para Bn) would be attached to one of teh Regular Para Battalions for a tour on Afghanistan.

Good point, well made. I'm thinking from today's perspective.

In either case when a TA soldier is called up in time of war to either reinforce an existing regiment or form a new one, he'll cease to be TA.

Assuming the British army didn't get raped by defence cuts i suppose we'd have to look at an organisatiom morelike the 80's than the last 10 years.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by 95th Rifleman

Assuming the British army didn't get raped by defence cuts i suppose we'd have to look at an organisatiom morelike the 80's than the last 10 years.

Yep...the way I see it Nate's going for a continued Cold War with a strengthened British Army. Possibly one where there's still a Strategic Defence Review circa 1990 but it increases rather than decreases Army numbers.

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

Yep...the way I see it Nate's going for a continued Cold War with a strengthened British Army. Possibly one where there's still a Strategic Defence Review circa 1990 but it increases rather than decreases Army numbers.

Exactly... The Black Winter that saw the Soviet Forces in Eastern Europe opening a massive can of whop-ass that was used to kick the Soviet Bloc back in line really scared the shit out of everyone... the surprise and swiftness that the Soviet forces had mobilized and carried out their operation had occuried in such a way that NATO wasn't really sure what was happening until it was too late.

Thus the NATO forces remained at full strength and developed force increases instead of decreases.

Hong Kong never was turned over to the PRC, the Treaty of Nanking that gave Hong Kong in perpetuity and the discovery of a wartime treaty between the UK and both sides of the Chinese Civil War that not only reinforced this, but gave the UK some more territory around Hong Kong (and opened up the possiblities of other concession areas throughout China that would have been brokered by the British with what ever government would be ruling China).

Now that i know that Territorial Army units are Light Infantry and Motorized Infantry units... I can understand better what's happening.

reestablishiment of disbanded (or just the creation of new) mechanized infantry, armoured and cavalry units might be a big thing during the expansion of the British Armed Forces.

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

Now that i know that Territorial Army units are Light Infantry and Motorized Infantry units... I can understand better what's happening.

Not exactly.

The Rifle's TA are light and motorised because that is the Rifle's main battle role.

Every Regiment's TA unit is roughly the same as their parent Regiment. Artillery TA are trained gunners, Cavalry TA are trained tankers etc.

[natehale1971]

I was picturing the Home Guard having a look of paramilitary (well, armed police) instead of the regular British Army. That's why i was going with the pre-DPM battle dress being issued from the stockpiles along with civilian articles.

I was seeing the Home Guard helping the Police with keeping the peace... especially dealing with anti-war riots that would be breaking out after the implimentation of the Draft on a very wide scale that included women. But the legislation would give women the ability to join the Home Guard to escape the draft (with preference to single mothers for such actions).

Also Consiencious Objectors wouldn't be getting out of serving in some kind of uniformed capacity... be it in the Home Guard or as a member of a construction battalion who'd be tasked with building, repairing and clearing areas that had been attacked.

[95th Rifleman]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

reestablishiment of disbanded (or just the creation of new) mechanized infantry, armoured and cavalry units might be a big thing during the expansion of the British Armed Forces.

Technicly no disbanded unit is removed from the rolls. It takes some act of great shame or treason for that to happen. So older regiments would just be rebuilt, given the old regimental name and designation and sent forth.
This helps to create a sense of history in a new regiment.

Also regiments previously amalgamated can be expanded and restored to their original colours. An example would be the 9th/12th Lancers (one of our recon regiments), they could be expanded and restored as two seperate regiments, the 9th lancers and the 12th lancers.

A long term rebuilding project would focus on restoring previously almagamated regiments before building new ones as it's easier to expand a current unit and then split it than it is to build from scratch.

[Tombot]

Originally Posted by natehale1971

Exactly... The Black Winter that saw the Soviet Forces in Eastern Europe opening a massive can of whop-ass ...

That reminded me of something:
(Since were having several british-themed threads right now)

http://www.blackwinter.freeservers.com/

(Did not check the archives on this). I liked that novel, and had some alternate stuff about BAOR, a british recongroup, and so on.
Did any of you read this, and maybe used it for a game somehow ?

I liked the notion of parts of BAOR planning their own "Going Home" from the city of Hamburg in early 2001, and expecting a hostile reception by the british army in southern england, because BAOR didnt retreat early, as ordered before.

[perardua]

The RAF has the Royal Auxiliary Air Force as its closest equivalent to the TA. I also struggle to believe that there would be a surplus of khaki uniforms floating about in a warehouse somewhere in the 90s as compared to the enormous number of DPM items produced over the years. I imagine that the majority of the WW2 style battledress would have been disposed of by that point. It might make more sense for the regular forces and better equipped reserve units to be wearing CS95, at least in the early stages of the war, and the rest of the reserves and the Home Guard to be wearing older version of DPM dress. Alternatively, you could always stick the Home Guard in OG lightweights as the Army moves towards wearing CS95 as their working dress and stops issuing barracks dress.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by perardua

I also struggle to believe that there would be a surplus of khaki uniforms floating about in a warehouse somewhere in the 90s as compared to the enormous number of DPM items produced over the years. I imagine that the majority of the WW2 style battledress would have been disposed of by that point. It might make more sense for the regular forces and better equipped reserve units to be wearing CS95, at least in the early stages of the war, and the rest of the reserves and the Home Guard to be wearing older version of DPM dress.

Agreed.

Perhaps HSF troops could be issued DPM jackets with OG trousers?

[perardua]

And puttees?