Composition of TF34

[Legbreaker]

Something to bear in mind is that ONLY ships located in Europe will be a part of the task force. There's no way to get ships with empty fuel tanks from the US and back again, given the oil is located (presumably) somewhere around Bremerhaven.

We know USS John Hancock was the flagship of the operation, and so we can presume it would have a fairly full complement of crew (drawn from survivors of other ships to round it out as necessary). Weapons, ammunition and general repair level might not be up to prewar scratch, but as one of the few fighting ships still floating, chances are it's going to have received a substantial share of available naval resources (mostly salvaged from other more heavily damaged ships).

We also know the USS Tarawa was at least floating in Summer 2000 (Naval & Aviation handbook - the notes from the colour plate showing the Osprey). Given the Tarawa is a far more capable C3 ship than the John Hancock, it's not much of a leap to believe it's either immobilised from actions during the Marine landings in July, or (my personal belief) sunk of the Polish coast.

From the Last Submarine trilogy, we also know there's no submarines in the task force. Also, given the USS John Hancock is the flagship, it's logical that no larger warships are included. My guess is the bulk of the task force consists of civilian freighters and passenger ships (cruise liners, ferries). As a point of interest, the RMS Queen Mary was refitted for WWII and carried up to 15,000 troops at a time (holds the record of 16,082). It's peacetime capacity was 2139 passengers and 1101 crew.
Provided a similar size ship was available, it's conceivable only about a dozen ships (although more likely about 20) would be needed to transport the 40,000 members of TF34.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Something to bear in mind is that ONLY ships located in Europe will be a part of the task force. There's no way to get ships with empty fuel tanks from the US and back again, given the oil is located (presumably) somewhere around Bremerhaven.

Mm. That leaves out any of those ships then.

We know USS John Hancock was the flagship of the operation, and so we can presume it would have a fairly full complement of crew (drawn from survivors of other ships to round it out as necessary). Weapons, ammunition and general repair level might not be up to prewar scratch, but as one of the few fighting ships still floating, chances are it's going to have received a substantial share of available naval resources (mostly salvaged from other more heavily damaged ships).

We also know the USS Tarawa was at least floating in Summer 2000 (Naval & Aviation handbook - the notes from the colour plate showing the Osprey). Given the Tarawa is a far more capable C3 ship than the John Hancock, it's not much of a leap to believe it's either immobilised from actions during the Marine landings in July, or (my personal belief) sunk of the Polish coast.

From the Last Submarine trilogy, we also know there's no submarines in the task force. Also, given the USS John Hancock is the flagship, it's logical that no larger warships are included. My guess is the bulk of the task force consists of civilian freighters and passenger ships (cruise liners, ferries). As a point of interest, the RMS Queen Mary was refitted for WWII and carried up to 15,000 troops at a time (holds the record of 16,082). It's peacetime capacity was 2139 passengers and 1101 crew.
Provided a similar size ship was available, it's conceivable only about a dozen ships (although more likely about 20) would be needed to transport the 40,000 members of TF34.

While I don't want to open up the debate again about Tarawa being sunk (which sadly seems most likely, beached is the only other possibility), could it be that the Tarawa has gone into own cantonment, like units that refused the OpOrd Omega in the first place and become a 39000 ton high tech pirate ship?

[Legbreaker]

Extremely doubtful. Floating, the Tarawa is just too damn valuable to leave out of formal military hands. All sides would want to lay claim to it and you can guarantee a SF raid or two would be on the cards.
Look at the USS City of Corpus Christi and the efforts made to recover it - and it doesn't have a fraction of the capability of an amphious landing ship (even if it is nuclear powered).
If the Tarawa couldn't be reclaimed for TF34, there's a high probability in my mind it would have been sunk. It would even warrant using one of the few remaining aircraft to throw the last couple of missiles at it.
If Nato didn't finish it off, you can bet the Pact would give it a good go - having what is a essentially a light aircraft carrier/military base located just off the Vistula delta would be a totally unacceptable prospect, even if immobile. Sure it only operates VTOL and STOL aircraft, and fuel is low, but just the capability alone is a scary prospect for the Pact leadership, especially since they can't exactly attack and overrun it with tanks and infantry like a conventional airstrip.

[Rainbow Six]

Other than the Hancock, I'm not aware of any other vessel, Naval or civilian, being specifically identified as part of TF34. Personally, I'd be inclined to go along with the views already put forward, i.e. that the bulk of the fleet would be civilian vessels.

I think its almost analagous to Battlestar Galactica (or at least the original film from the 70's - I never saw the remake / reboot so don't know if it differs)...you have a lone warship escorting a ragtag civilian fleet to its destination...here the John Hancock is the Galactica.

And who knows, maybe there's a Pegasus out there somewhere...

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

I think its almost analagous to Battlestar Galactica (or at least the original film from the 70's - I never saw the remake / reboot so don't know if it differs)...

The remake is actually pretty good in the first couple of seasons at least. You really get the feeling of desperation from the survivors and the shoelaces and chewing gum holding everything together shows through nicely too.

[rcaf_777]

I think any craft that would foat and make the trip could go, like the durring the evac at Dunkirk, there about 65 major seaports on the eastern US alone plenty of places to find ships and fuel, I mean the Soviets could'nt nuke them all, heck it sounds like good adventure

Twilight 2000 V2 did a adventure along theses line in Bangkok Cesspool of the Orient in which character are trying to get rid out a group on pirates living in an old LST

[Legbreaker]

So if there's all these ships over on the US east coast and there's all this fuel just laying about, why isn't it being used already?
As previously stated, common sense dictates that only ships in the Baltic/North Sea region would have been available for the evacuation, and even then, bringing some of them in would have been a major undertaking - laid up for the last couple of years without fuel, maintenance, or crew.

The vast majority of shipping used post 1997 would be either wind powered, or small and relatively efficient fuel burners in comparison to larger vessels capable of an Atlantic crossing. Maintenance on these larger vessels would have been virtually non-existant - why would you bother if the crews are better used on smaller fishing boats or coastal cargo haulers. These large and essentially useless vessels simply don't warrant any expenditure of valuable and scarce resources to keep them seaworthy.

My guess is the larger ships would be tied up to the dock where their fuel ran out, or towed out of the way and anchored. With storms, nukes, stray torpedoes, mines and all the other dangers, it isn't likely many would be left in sailing condition.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

The remake is actually pretty good in the first couple of seasons at least. You really get the feeling of desperation from the survivors and the shoelaces and chewing gum holding everything together shows through nicely too.

It gets more profound as the series winds down; mid series (seasons #2 and #3) things are practically going well for the refugees.