Composition of TF34

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by Rainbow Six

I think its almost analagous to Battlestar Galactica (or at least the original film from the 70's - I never saw the remake / reboot so don't know if it differs)...

The remake is actually pretty good in the first couple of seasons at least. You really get the feeling of desperation from the survivors and the shoelaces and chewing gum holding everything together shows through nicely too.

[rcaf_777]

I think any craft that would foat and make the trip could go, like the durring the evac at Dunkirk, there about 65 major seaports on the eastern US alone plenty of places to find ships and fuel, I mean the Soviets could'nt nuke them all, heck it sounds like good adventure

Twilight 2000 V2 did a adventure along theses line in Bangkok Cesspool of the Orient in which character are trying to get rid out a group on pirates living in an old LST

[Legbreaker]

So if there's all these ships over on the US east coast and there's all this fuel just laying about, why isn't it being used already?
As previously stated, common sense dictates that only ships in the Baltic/North Sea region would have been available for the evacuation, and even then, bringing some of them in would have been a major undertaking - laid up for the last couple of years without fuel, maintenance, or crew.

The vast majority of shipping used post 1997 would be either wind powered, or small and relatively efficient fuel burners in comparison to larger vessels capable of an Atlantic crossing. Maintenance on these larger vessels would have been virtually non-existant - why would you bother if the crews are better used on smaller fishing boats or coastal cargo haulers. These large and essentially useless vessels simply don't warrant any expenditure of valuable and scarce resources to keep them seaworthy.

My guess is the larger ships would be tied up to the dock where their fuel ran out, or towed out of the way and anchored. With storms, nukes, stray torpedoes, mines and all the other dangers, it isn't likely many would be left in sailing condition.

[Targan]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

So if there's all these ships over on the US east coast and there's all this fuel just laying about, why isn't it being used already?

A couple of months back I posted the list of USN ships operating between Norfolk and NYC during the early months of 2001, immediately following the arrival at Norfolk of TF34, as published in the GDW mini-module A Rock in Troubled Waters. It doesn't specifically state which of those vessels was already stationed on the US east coast and which arrived with TF34. Therefore, at the discretion of each individual GM, any or all of those vessels (although obviously only the ones capable of a trans-Atlantic crossing) may have been part of TF34.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

So if there's all these ships over on the US east coast and there's all this fuel just laying about, why isn't it being used already?

I didn't say there was; I was putting it out there as a possibility. Also, the fuel for a crossing might be held as strategic reserve for just such an eventuality, or a final ReForGer, or something along those lines.

However, as was pointed out, the shipping came from German ports anyway, so it's a non-issue.

[Targan]

Here is the link to my previous post listing the USN assets detailed in A Rock in Troubled Waters:
http://forum.juhlin.com/showpost.php...3&postcount=23
Raketenjagdpanzer, there are some other excellent posts in that thread by other members here which may also be of value to your TF34 musings.

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by raketenjagdpanzer

I didn't say there was; I was putting it out there as a possibility. Also, the fuel for a crossing might be held as strategic reserve for just such an eventuality, or a final ReForGer, or something along those lines.

However, as was pointed out, the shipping came from German ports anyway, so it's a non-issue.

I'm going from memory here, but didn't reinforcements of sorts (mainly USAR Light Divisions) sail from the US to Europe in either late 1998 or sometime in 1999 - Civgov to Yugoslavia and Milgov to Germany?

If that's the case then not impossible that there was only enough fuel available at the time for these ships to only make a one way journey and some of them could now return to the US as part of TF34?

Just a thought...

[Legbreaker]

Something else to keep in mind is just because ships are available, doesn't mean they'll be allowed to be used by their owners. What about all the other nations involved and how are they going to feel about the US grabbing every last bathtub able to float across the Atlantic? Image how Britain for example would react to seeing "their" ships being rounded up by the remnants of the US navy and sailing off into the sunset!

[Rainbow Six]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

Something else to keep in mind is just because ships are available, doesn't mean they'll be allowed to be used by their owners. What about all the other nations involved and how are they going to feel about the US grabbing every last bathtub able to float across the Atlantic? Image how Britain for example would react to seeing "their" ships being rounded up by the remnants of the US navy and sailing off into the sunset!

That's a good point. I presume the Germans must have signed off on the idea of some of their remaining merchant fleet going on what was a one way journey to the US (it was stated that the oil would burn out the ships' engines wasn't it?) as part of the deal.

However it also supports the theory that if there are any US ships sitting tied up at Bremerhaven after bringing over reinforcements in 1999 they would be incorporated into TF34.

[raketenjagdpanzer]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

The remake is actually pretty good in the first couple of seasons at least. You really get the feeling of desperation from the survivors and the shoelaces and chewing gum holding everything together shows through nicely too.

It gets more profound as the series winds down; mid series (seasons #2 and #3) things are practically going well for the refugees.