Questions about Home Guard/Militia units..

[natehale1971]

I want to thank The Rifleman for all his help on this. it's given me some good ideas for what i'm working on.

[The Rifleman]

You're welcome. I should thank you too. I saved all that info and perhaps I'll use it to create some sort of Vermont reasource guide or even campaign.

[natehale1971]

Originally Posted by The Rifleman

You're welcome. I should thank you too. I saved all that info and perhaps I'll use it to create some sort of Vermont reasource guide or even campaign.

That's great. just make sure you post it here for everyone to enjoy it as well!

[Targan]

Interesting take on Vermont. Have you guys read Webstral's New England material?

[Legbreaker]

My major concern here is that once Europe, Korea and the Middle East really ramp up and losses start piling up (particularly in the latter half of 1997 when NATO was in full retreat and loosing entire Divisions one after the other), a concerted effort would be made to send out "scroungers" to round up all these vehicles, or at the very least tally up what is where in order to requisition them later on if things get REALLY bad (which they obviously did, but post nuke there's not exactly much of an organised "procurement" organisation left).

Some pieces of equipment are likely to escape being swept back into service, sure, but if the handful of us here on this forum are aware of what is potentially out there, I'm fairly sure somebody in the military, hell even the civilian government, is going to start thinking along the same lines and DO something about it.

Many vehicles, etc aren't going to be suitable for the front lines - who in their right mind wants to send an old M4 to Europe in 1997? However, anything deemed useful isn't likely to get easily overlooked.

Therefore, WWII and maybe Korea era equipment may be found with the state guard and militia, but anything newer is sure to be exceptionally unique.

[The Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Legbreaker

My major concern here is that once Europe, Korea and the Middle East really ramp up and losses start piling up (particularly in the latter half of 1997 when NATO was in full retreat and loosing entire Divisions one after the other), a concerted effort would be made to send out "scroungers" to round up all these vehicles, or at the very least tally up what is where in order to requisition them later on if things get REALLY bad (which they obviously did, but post nuke there's not exactly much of an organised "procurement" organisation left).

Some pieces of equipment are likely to escape being swept back into service, sure, but if the handful of us here on this forum are aware of what is potentially out there, I'm fairly sure somebody in the military, hell even the civilian government, is going to start thinking along the same lines and DO something about it.

Many vehicles, etc aren't going to be suitable for the front lines - who in their right mind wants to send an old M4 to Europe in 1997? However, anything deemed useful isn't likely to get easily overlooked.

Therefore, WWII and maybe Korea era equipment may be found with the state guard and militia, but anything newer is sure to be exceptionally unique.

Just no. The nearest army bases are Fort drum (10 hours drive) or Fort Dix (8 hours drive). By army base standards, neither are large. Do you honestly think that someone is going to get in a car, spend days or weeks driving around small towns in new england hoping to see a lawn ornaments? The army has no idea where these tanks are because they are not even the army's property anymore. Lets play this out.

The army has people spending weeks driving around looking for old tanks. Then, after one is actually found, they have to get a truck and a special trailer to come up from Kentucky (three days drive) to get it. AND if its not running, you'll need a tank recovery vehicle to drag or push it. AND that vehicle will need a second truck and special trailer to bring it up from Kentucky to Ludlow, Vermont, to bring it back as well. AND don't forget that someone has got to keep them fueled. AND on top of that, these tanks ARENT OWNED by the army, they are sitting on the property book of the state. So even if the army decided they wanted to try and pull rank, its totally unrealistic.

Are you familiar with the US Army Vehicle guide? Whole infantry divisions were getting attacked by bandits. How are two tractor trailers towing a tank recovery vehicle, mechanics, and some other vehicles with stills going to drive 3 days through bandit country because some private found a tank?

[Legbreaker]

Originally Posted by The Rifleman

Are you familiar with the US Army Vehicle guide?

Intimately.

Does it matter how far away an army base is if it's a non-military, government agency tracking them down? :s
Am I misunderstanding things here? Are we talking about just one vehicle in a depot waiting for conversion to lawn ornament, or closer to the impression I'm getting from reading this thread, a collection of a dozen or so plus miscellaneous equipment abandoned/cast off/declared obsolete and surplus pre war? If the latter, then these depots represent a significant resource which should not be overlooked.

We also know that the military/government is able and willing to requisition equipment and supplies during wartime - they've done it before and will do it again. Therefore, the "paper" ownership of these items is a completely moot point. Take for example the notes for B2: Cadillac Gage Stingray.

...in early 1997 the Stingrays were requisitioned. (The vehicle in this plate still retains markings on it's rear superstructure showing it was requisitioned in February 1997 by Field Materials Headquarters Company 12.)

So, are we saying bandits and the like were already making life difficult and operating without the authorities doing anything about it as early as 2 months after the US entering the war, before many units had even assembled and climbed aboard a plane?

If Stingrays, a vehicle which the US military didn't even have on it's books beforehand were being requisitioned and sent to the front, why would the "surplus" M1s, M60's, M48's, etc, etc, etc be ignored? It might well take a while to track them down, but records surely exist somewhere regarding disposal of these items? How hard would it be pre-nuke to carry out a simple computer search and find where they are supposed to be, then send out a couple of men in cars to confirm it?

Would these vehicles have necessarily been sent to the front? I doubt it.
BUT, as training vehicles, both for crew members and technicians (who could pull apart one of these recovered vehicles without fear of breaking something that was actually NEEDED on the front lines) they would be invaluable (take for example the Sentinel tank in WWII which although combat worthy never saw combat, but was used for training).

Once these vehicles were found, civilian contractors could be engaged to transport them to these training areas - a logging contractor for example with a low loader may find themselves shifting an M60 instead of the usual bull dozer. Use of these contractors will not have a significant negative impact on the overall troop mobilisation - they're outside the usual logistical network already operating overtime to shift tens, hundreds of thousands of troops to the docks and airports.

So in conclusion, efforts were clearly made to round up anything useful to the war effort. In wartime, the Federal government comes first, superseding any claims State or Local organisations have (although I'm sure there'd have to be payments, or promises of payments made). Not every vehicle/equipment would be rounded up, but it's very unlikely there'd be any relatively modern MBTs floating about for the State Guard/militia to lay their hands on.

As a side note, in WWII, all shrapnel from German bombs dropped on England was considered to be government property and was to be handed in for recycling immediately (although many kids illegally kept what they found as souvenirs). Numerous drives were made to collect scrap metal and just about anything else which could aid the war effort. In WWIII, would an M60A2 elude a similar round up if mere scrap in WWII was valued so highly?

[The Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Targan

Interesting take on Vermont. Have you guys read Webstral's New England material?

I didn't know it existed.