Stoner Weapon System replacement?

[.45cultist]

I envisioned that Morrow Industries did the Blackwater/ Haliburton stuff to prepare for their mission, so erly adoption exists in my timeline.

[ArmySGT.]

Not everyone was frozen and emplaced at the same time..... Per 3rd, some teams had their equipment updated without waking them.

So an enterprising PD could have load outs for the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. The Teams would not be awoken so as to shock them with the change and keep them in their prime physical condition for the mission.

60s could have surplus WW2.... Thompson SMGs, Please with a M8 scout car.

70s could be 3rd with Stoners.

80s with M16s and M1025 Humvees

90s and you have 4th edition.

How much fun to be even older, without the knowledge of PCs, cell phones, and GPS......... Tommy guns and berets, or Fedoras. Like a Boss.

[.45cultist]

And the 3rd ed. stated equipment and manuals were added to sleeping teams gear. I'd think stuff like computers would require classes.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

And the 3rd ed. stated equipment and manuals were added to sleeping teams gear. I'd think stuff like computers would require classes.

Depends upon the complexity. A touch screen with macro that prompt actions, open menus, or prompts for data imputs........ a 2015 autonav that acts like a turn by turn GPS for example.

Additionally, updates might mean only one member or the primary and secondary operators are awaked. Such as radio operators.

This does run up the risk of disclosing the bolt hole location. However, I think that the remote locations of most bolt holes; coupled with the indepth deception techniques, means the probability itself is low.

[bobcat]

honestly i could see the project leaving most of the equipment in place why tear out and replace a good logistics mechanism just because there's some shiny, new, untested weapons system out there.

that said i could see them streamlining some of the logistical hurdles that they had to make do with as some of the kit gets improves. for example removing the HK69's M203's and M79's and replacing them with HK M320's which can serve as either an under barrel or standalone grenade launcher. and replacing the M60's and MAG 58's with the M240B. i could also see upgrade and modernization kits for existing weapons in the inventory such as the Uzi, Stoner, and such. this would limit the amount of time spent training the teams on all new weapon systems and allow older assets to continue to serve their purpose.

i never understood why the Project failed to reduce the logistical stress of having so many ammunition types to maintain among individual weapons. standardization would have been a far smarter course of action.

[mmartin798]

Originally Posted by bobcat

i never understood why the Project failed to reduce the logistical stress of having so many ammunition types to maintain among individual weapons. standardization would have been a far smarter course of action.

I am not sure 9 different types of small arms ammunition (9x19, 5.56x45, 5.56x45 linked, 7.62x51, 7.62x51 linked, 12.7x99 linked, .44 magnum, .357 magnum and 12 Ga 00 buckshot magnum) would cause that much of a logistical problem. They are common rounds for US military, so it would not be that difficult to find. The Project most likely had a JIT inventory model in mind.

You might be able to make a case for heavy weapons producing more logistical stress. But in those cases, 40mm grenades and 81mm mortar rounds become more specialized in purpose than a slug.

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by mmartin798

I am not sure 9 different types of small arms ammunition (9x19, 5.56x45, 5.56x45 linked, 7.62x51, 7.62x51 linked, 12.7x99 linked, .44 magnum, .357 magnum and 12 Ga 00 buckshot magnum) would cause that much of a logistical problem. They are common rounds for US military, so it would not be that difficult to find. The Project most likely had a JIT inventory model in mind.

You might be able to make a case for heavy weapons producing more logistical stress. But in those cases, 40mm grenades and 81mm mortar rounds become more specialized in purpose than a slug.

its not just caliber though magazines by my count in 3E you have 4 different 5.56mm non-compatible magazines types to maintain and supply, you also have repair and replacement parts that need to be stocked, depot maintenance teams to train, and so on. all the extra hubris gets in the way and especially with a JIT logistics system you're going to have problems that will escalate rapidly enough that MARS and recon teams will run out of supplies at critical points and before you know it prime base has been overrun by a group of barbarians.

streamlining the loadouts to reduce the logistics footprint would also be essential in keeping the project from becoming too visible during the planning and staging. its easier to whitewash very large purchases of weapons from a small number or suppliers than it is with large purchases of weapons from a large number of suppliers.

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by .45cultist

I envisioned that Morrow Industries did the Blackwater/ Haliburton stuff to prepare for their mission, so erly adoption exists in my timeline.

So how shady does a Morrow Industries branch of Private Military Contractors go?

Keeping with the theme of the thread.... I keep the HP-35. It just gets updated with better materials so +P+ ammunition is possible and a double action trigger too if the PC wants it.

I have considered the AR-18 for project issue. That has atleast been adopted at one time by some south east asian military (singapore?) and was manufactured in quantity. Has two advantages over the AR15, a side folding stock, and gas piston. The hinge pin holes at the front of the lower receiver are weak and have been know to break off if handled improperly. This renders an AR18 useless. The AR18 will use M16 magazines.

[swaghauler]

What about upgrades to existing weapons in the stockpile. ALL of the M14 EBR-RI (Enhanced Battle Rifle-Rock Island) DMR's in service now are simply remanufactured M-14's with a Sage International stock, 6 mags, sling, Harris Bipod, Leupold 3.5 to 10 power scope and special scope mount, and a match grade trigger. All of the parts are simply "dropped into" previously stored rifles to create the M14 EBR-RI. This can be done with just about every gun but the 1911 (which often requires "hand fitting"). What's stopping the caretakers' of the site from updating the equipment in this manner?

[ArmySGT.]

Originally Posted by swaghauler

What about upgrades to existing weapons in the stockpile. ALL of the M14 EBR-RI (Enhanced Battle Rifle-Rock Island) DMR's in service now are simply remanufactured M-14's with a Sage International stock, 6 mags, sling, Harris Bipod, Leupold 3.5 to 10 power scope and special scope mount, and a match grade trigger. All of the parts are simply "dropped into" previously stored rifles to create the M14 EBR-RI. This can be done with just about every gun but the 1911 (which often requires "hand fitting"). What's stopping the caretakers' of the site from updating the equipment in this manner?

Caches of this type are carefully hidden, often with an elaborate deception plan hiding the existence of the cache from public knowledge.

The interiors of the cache are sealed with a nitrogen (or other noble gas) environment to prevent oxidation and deterioration. These caches were buried decades in advance to be available after an American-Soviet nuclear war. The first caches were laid down in the early days for the Project using the technology at hand 1960s to early 1970s. Then Bruce E. Morrow returns from the future with the plans and a functioning example of some advanced technologies. The cryogenic sleep tubes to preserve Project members in their physical and mental prime and portable micro fusion power plants to power their equipment and untether them from fuel pumps.

Canonically, a mass update of equipment occurs in the mid 1980s for third edition with a war on 19 November 1989. 4th edition I don't recall if their is an equipment update before a 2017 War/Dinosaur killer comet strike.

[history1861]

I have experimented in several different campaigns with switching out the Basic Load weapons but always seem to come back to the ones in 3rd Edition. It feels more like Morrow Project that way...
That said, I usually add the M16A2 as a replacement system and upgrade the M16A1s (Basic Load 2), though I've kept the XM174 grenade launcher, instead of replacing it with the Mark 19. The differences in size and weight between them convinced me of that. I know the system didn't work out well in the Real World, so let's hope the Project managed to fix the problems it had.
I always liked the idea that there were redundant systems in the Project, like the Uzi/Mac-10, indicating that MP was picking things up as they went along and that it wasn't a monolithic entity you were dealing with but rather a group trying to get things done as best they could.
Though, I've been playing and running the game since the 80s so perhaps I'm just set in my ways.
Also not a fan of the Humvee so I normally keep the XR-311 too..