Alternatively Armed Armies

[Kellhound]

In Spain is a "trabuco", and the bell shape make them fairly easy to load.
It's fairly popular with muzzleloading communities and some folk festivities in several zones, so there are quite a few around, and in a post-nuke situation you could find some small towns armed with them.

Besides, it's very traditional here. Where have you seen a Sierra Morena bandolero without one?

[Mohoender]

Originally Posted by Kellhound

Besides, it's very traditional here. Where have you seen a Sierra Morena bandolero without one?

I think we have similar traditions around here (called "Bravadeurs"). My area has about 20 equipped with Blunderbuss and 40-50 musketeers.

My wife's native town (St Tropez) as a full company with about 200 muketeers.

Thinking about that. Several cities will have artilery pieces from the Napoleonic era that shouldn't be that hard to put back in working order.

HQ I said I was mistaken. I also said that the local man would be able to make simple bows only, at first. Whatever, I still go with the blunt weapons, axes..., and forget about frontal approach.

[Slappy]

To get back to the original question, I think arming raw civilians with either bows or crossbows would be of marginal effectiveness at best given the state of the world in most T2K campaigns.

I'm assuming that the players still have automatic weapons as do many of their adversaries. I find it doubtful that an untrained group with homemade crossbows will bring much to the party. The likelihood of doing much damage is low as is the likelihood that they will be able to stand and fight effectively. Remember, low morale and unit cohesion usually come with low training. They might actually be better off standing off with higher quality weapons. They'll probably stay in the fight longer.

Two other thoughts though. I'm not saying that a highly trained professional couldn't make useful tactical use of these weapons. An elite soldier with a crossbow is probably a better bet than a novice with an AK in close quarters. Also, these weapons should become more and more effective as technology recedes. Bowmen couldn't stand up to even primitive firearms and I don't expect they'd do very well against M249s either, but when these weapons wear out they will once again have a lot to offer. It's just that most T2K campaigns still have a higher tech level than the one at which this would be an effective strategy.

[Fusilier]

Originally Posted by Slappy

To get back to the original question, I think arming raw civilians with either bows or crossbows would be of marginal effectiveness at best given the state of the world in most T2K campaigns.

I agree here. Mostly for the reasons given by Slappy.

I would say possible in some defense of the home type cases. But not offensive for sure. I especially can't imagine that people would put themselves into such a (cannon fodder) position.

[jester]

Ah yes a trained seasoned character who knows the primitive weapon would most likely be more effective than refugee armed with a primative weapon, and the refugee armed with a modern weapon would be more effective. But a trained veteran type with a modern weapon would be even further ahead and thus a force multiplier.

As for something else,

Novice types armed with primative weapons well, one needs to level the playing field.

So, slow the enemy up, force them to close so that range isn't a factor. We show alot of blunderbusses which are devestating at close range. So, build a trench or maze network where attackers need to get close, this will also channel them, so the advantage of range and accuracy is dispelled. And limit the numbers in which they can attack as well and you improve the chances of the novice defenders.

Like I said, I would build a maze of trenches leading to the blockhouse where the novices armed with primitive weapons made a stand, so the well trained well equiped attackers could not use their training and weapons to their full advantage.

[Targan]

I agree that a PC party armed with the normal plethora of high powered military weapons would slaughter a rabble armed with primitive weapons but that doesn't mean that such an engagement would be risk-free for the PCs.

When the 78th ID (Light) decided to leave NYC and got ambushed (losing the NYC gold reserves in the process) it had more to do with sheer numbers of opponents and effective use of road blocks and channelling than with the relative effectiveness of each side's weapons.

I can imagine situations where poorly armed opponents who outnumber a PC party would be willing to take their chances with a well prepared ambush and primative weapons. The potential rewards (a bunch of military weapons, ammo and equipment) would be great and if the poorly armed folks are already living in really bad conditions and have a high mortality rate anyway they really haven't got much to lose.

I've described on this forum before an occassion in my campaign where Major Po's XO, a USN SEAL officer, came within a hair's bredth of having his face shot off by a half starved teenager with a zip gun firing reloaded 12 gauge rounds stuffed full of nail heads and broken glass. The SEAL had been stalking the kid through long grass and the kid, panicked and scared into immobility, stayed perfectly still until the SEAL was less than 10 feet from him. The SEAL's body armour stopped a couple of fragments and he took a piece of glass in the cheek. A sobering moment for him I think.

[jester]

Targ;

That is my point on how to mount a defence. Force the attackers to come in at close quarters and break up their cohesion as well as limit their numbers which will reduce their effectiveness. And in the end if you have to rat through a maze while under the eye of even the greenest of folks they will be able to take a pot shot at you. And if they are using ALOT of buckshot well, they will take casualties.

Then if the stronghold is on a raised section nothing like a vault over an open area which sucks for you and gives you the same danger and chances if you are a seal or a member of the local boys chior. The risk is the same.

And the same goes if you want to STOP! Crawl to the EDGE to get a view and a shot. You will stand out, you will be a target and most likely have some lead thrown your way which is usualy an unhealthy proposition.