YaATW2KT: The Second Mexican-American War

[RN7]

Originally Posted by Olefin

"It has always been about the belligerent & insulting manner in which the original authors have been criticized for being unrealistic when the person supplying that criticism is himself making some claims that fall into that category."

Sorry but no one is being either belligerent or insulting of the original authors.

And the claims that I am making are totally realistic

Fact - the Belgians were in the process of replacing their old APC's with new ones, many of them built in Belguim

Fact - the Mexican Army was operating a lot of French equipment as was trying to get more to modernize their army - and was buying mostly from the French so that it wouldnt strain their logistics system which already sucked

Fact - the Belgians would have most likely wanted to get rid of their older APC's now that they had new ones - which is indicated by the real world draw down in the 1990's

and also the canon - the three day stand in Texas by a bunch of military cadets, the fact that the School Brigade - with basically anti-aircraft weapons used against armor and the very nature of the Mexican Army who had never bought main battle tanks previously in the history of their armed forces except a few Stuarts that were used as recon armor and not tanks all add up to a Mexican military that would not have suddenly bought hundreds of tanks

and canon - the forces that were left in the US could not have stopped a Mexican Army as depicted in the fan canon sourcebook backed up by a Soviet Motor Rifle Division from taking a hell of a lot more territory unless every unit left in the US went to engage them - which THEY DID NOT - especially two armored brigades that for sure would have engaged them -
that alone shows that they could not have had that much heavy armor

in fact the canon saying that when the 197th did enter Texas it only did so to fight the Texian Legion and marauders tells you that the Mexicans didnt have any heavy armor of their own along for the ride

and my objection to canon comes down to the Mexicans being able to hold what they took for any length of time past 2000 considering the amount of new veteran US troops brought back to the country, considering that many of the areas they held would have had almost no water when the US cut off the supplies and that they were fighting a Civil War and had almost no logistical support of any kind

So am I objecting to the invasion itself - no - what I am objecting to is a very obviously flawed fan canon sourcebook that adds so much in the way of overall TOE to the Mexican Army that you would have to not just rewrite canon you would have to literally tear it up and ignore it - including Frank Chadwick's Mexican Army post in Challenge, the US Army Vehicle Guide and its dispositions of US forces after the invasion and Red Star Lone Star - in fact the only Mexican force with tanks is in City of Angels and its considered apocrypha mainly because of the sudden appearance of so much Russian equipment and almost no Mexican

if the Mexicans had built up a force with that many tanks the US would have only had one way to stop it - and basically that would have meant multiple nukes on both the US and Mexico in places like Texas, California, AZ and NM - and again thats a big time rewrite of canon history

You are looking at a Mexican Army with literally almost 1500 tanks plus Division Cuba against one armored division, one reforming mech division fitted with whatever tanks they could grab and two tank brigades that never even engaged the invasion - all low on gas and ammo - good luck stopping that short of Kansas or Oregon

"Fact - the Belgians were in the process of replacing their old APC's with new ones, many of them built in Belguim"

Belgium had a small defence budget and a small army that was committed to NATO. In fact almost the entire Belgian regular army was committed to NATO and its main function was to commit the I Belgian Corps to CENTAG in West Germany. Belgium had two reserve mechanised brigades to reinforce the I Belgian Corps and defend Belgian territory, and both brigades were equipped with the AMX VCI. Belgium shares a land border with Germany and if I Belgian Corps failed to whole the line then the Soviets would be marching on Belgium, and all the Belgian Army would have to defend Belgium would be the two reserve mechanised brigades and some territorial infantry battalions. But you believe Belgium would ignore its own very real defence needs and strip its army of over 500 APC's (AMX VCI and BDX) and sell them to Mexico for the price of second hand surplus.

Fact - the Mexican Army was operating a lot of French equipment as was trying to get more to modernize their army - and was buying mostly from the French so that it wouldnt strain their logistics system which already sucked.

This is basically what Paul Mulcahy proposed in his Mexican Army Sourcebook, but you dismissed it out of hand. You may not agree with the level of equipment that Mexico bought or licence built from France, but he was certainly on the right path and Mexico would need to beef up its army with tanks to take on U.S. forces. A few battalions of AMX-30's plus some Soviet tanks from Division Cuba would at least give the Mexicans a fighting chance against U.S. forces, and explain why they were able to defeat better armed U.S. forces and hold American territory for longer than they would be expected to do so once U.S. forces come after them.

In the 1980's Mexico bought the following from France. 120 ERC-90, 48 VCR-TT, 40 VBL including 8 with Milan anti-tank missiles, 32 MO-120 RT 120mm Mortars and 80 MILAN anti-tank missile. They also bought 6 FIROS -51 Self propelled MRL from Italy. This is a fairly moderate arms purchase but nonetheless upgraded Mexican forces, and all of these arms were bought new.

In the 1990's Mexico bought 401 Belgian AMX VCI including mortar carriers and ARV's that were modified as the DNC-1 in Mexico, 95 BDX that were designated as DNC-2 in Mexico, and also bought 28 Commando V-150 from the U.S. All of these were bought after the end of the Cold War and were bought second hand from surplus Belgian and U.S. stocks.

The rest.

GDW didn't write a perfect Orbat or history for the Twilight War, but it's still damn good considering the source material they had available in the 1980's. GDW listed U.S. divisions, brigades and armoured cavalry regiments only. There were some omissions in U.S. Army forces regards to brigades and battalions that were not roundout's, and this has been pointed out many times. Also GDW only lists tanks, there is little or no reference to the number of lighter armoured vehicles and artillery of all types, and there must have been a lot operated by U.S. forces.

If you don't like canon go and type up your own alternative version and post it up, but I like canon and will stick with it.